Dragon's Crown |OT| -- NOW AVAILABLE! Hands-On Impressions Inside!

[QUOTE="Phantom_Leo"]

Alright, Another question:

Who is the more stereotypical and negative portrayal of a woman in a game?

--or--

Phantom_Leo

___________________

Blonde hair, blue eyes and blank stare whose apparent occupation ISN'T governing her Kingdom, but baking cakes for her plumber boyfriend and getting captured again and again and again...

--OR--

Kick-ass Sorceress capable of Shooting Fireballs from her wand, killing skeletons and Dragons **that would swallow Bowser in one gulp, no less** and raising the dead to fight as she commands to be one of the ACTIVE, FIGHTING Heroes of Dragon's Crown...

___________________

One is an insult to the entire women's liberation movement and the other is the center of controvery because of her boobies... How is this in any way correct? I honestly believe Peach is more offensive than The Sorceress!

I agree. The princess is way a more sterotypical woman the sorceress. The princess represents a tamed soccer mom fit for society while the sorceress is an over exaggeration of what a lot of women aspire to be in terms of sex appeal and the true desires of heterosexual men. I'll take the sorceress anyday.

For a game that many claim tries to sell on sex alone, the box is incredibly subdued!

Phantom_Leo

I think the claim that many are making is that the game is sexist, and it certainly seems to be a justifiable one.  Look at the results of your own survey.  Only 9% of the respondents are women.  This forum appears to be an unlikely place to have a meaningful discussion about sexism in games.

This forum appears to be an unlikely place to have a meaningful discussion about sexism in games.capaho

No such forum exists.

[QUOTE="capaho"]This forum appears to be an unlikely place to have a meaningful discussionc_rake

No such forum exists.

Fixed :P

Fixed :PIndianaPwns39

Also true!

[QUOTE="capaho"]This forum appears to be an unlikely place to have a meaningful discussion about sexism in games.c_rake

No such forum exists.

Not here, anyway.  If the OP really wants a discussion on sexism relative to the images he keeps posting here, he should find a forum dedicated to women's issues and see what kind of response he gets.

This might be a good place to start.

or...

Ogle this.

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

[QUOTE="capaho"]This forum appears to be an unlikely place to have a meaningful discussion about sexism in games.capaho

No such forum exists.

Not here, anyway.  If the OP really wants a discussion on sexism relative to the images he keeps posting here, he should find a forum dedicated to women's issues and see what kind of response he gets.

This might be a good place to start.

or...

Ogle this.

Does NOMAS even have a forum? There are no comments nor a discussion page. Under membership there are a bunch of payment options to get you in the group but it doesn't talk about online discussions or anything.

AMAZING Amazon Gameplay video!

Does NOMAS even have a forum? There are no comments nor a discussion page. Under membership there are a bunch of payment options to get you in the group but it doesn't talk about online discussions or anything.

IndianaPwns39

NOMAS has a presence on Facebook.  Here's a women's forum discussion that might be of interest:

Check Out These Hot Chicks!

AMAZING Amazon Gameplay video!

Phantom_Leo

Are you running a PR campaign for this game?  This reminds me of robotapple and his incessant Zombie U threads.

Are you running a PR campaign for this game?  This reminds me of robotapple and his incessant Zombie U threads.capaho

Pretty sure this has been made into the game's official thread here (is that right, Leo?). Not the first time a thread has been repurposed.

Pretty sure this has been made into the game's official thread here (is that right, Leo?). Not the first time a thread has been repurposed.

c_rake

I was just trying to figure out why the OP keeps bumping this thread considering the lack of participation in this discussion of late.  Most threads like this get locked long before this point.  The OP would be doing a solo act by now if IndianaPwns39 and I weren't still hanging around, and I'm here mainly out of curiosity.  I'm wondering if beating a dead horse can actually bring it back to life.

Pretty sure this has been made into the game's official thread here (is that right, Leo?). Not the first time a thread has been repurposed.

c_rake

While I don't know if there will be enough news between now and August to keep an Official Topic going, I may add reviews to this topic THEN just to have it all in one place. Of course, If I see Japanese reviews between now and then I'll add them too!

I find it amazing that as (faux) offended as the media got at the Sorceress from the get-go, Cos-Playing women didn't hesitate for a moment to add her to their range of characters to portray:

If you search Dragon's Crown cosplay, you'll find plenty of examples of the Sorceress. A few scarce examples of the Elf, and practically NONE of the Amazon and/or the men!

Well, at least they do a pretty good job of portraying her.

Oh... hey Leo. Check this out.

http://www.atlus.com/dragonscrown/purchase.html

You get a free 64 page artbook while supplies last if you reserve a copy of Dragon's Crown. I thought you might find this pretty exciting.

THAT'S AWESOME!!

Thanks!!

:shock:

Oh... hey Leo. Check this out.

http://www.atlus.com/dragonscrown/purchase.html

You get a free 64 page artbook while supplies last if you reserve a copy of Dragon's Crown. I thought you might find this pretty exciting.

juradai

I find it amazing that as (faux) offended as the media got at the Sorceress from the get-go, Cos-Playing women didn't hesitate for a moment to add her to their range of characters to portray:

If you search Dragon's Crown cosplay, you'll find plenty of examples of the Sorceress. A few scarce examples of the Elf, and practically NONE of the Amazon and/or the men!

Phantom_Leo

Even for women who find the images amusing enough to mimic in costume, I seriously doubt that the images have the same meaning to them as they do to the ogling masses.  Your comment is just more evidence of the insensitivity of those of you who are governed by a fundamental lack of respect for the feelings of others who are genuinely offended by them and who suffer the consequences of being objectified or marginalized.  You think diversity issues are a joke, but they aren't.  Genuine suffering occurs as a result of the ignorance and insensitivity of those who don't care about anyone else as long as they have what they want.

By the why, why are there no women of color depicted in any of the game images posted in this thread?  In fact, there don't seem to be any people of color at all in any of the images posted in this thread.

By the why, why are there no women of color depicted in any of the game images posted in this thread?  In fact, there don't seem to be any people of color at all in any of the images posted in this thread.

capaho

People usually only post pictures of people they find attractive.

I agree. The princess is way a more sterotypical woman the sorceress. The princess represents a tamed soccer mom fit for society while the sorceress is an over exaggeration of what a lot of women aspire to be in terms of sex appeal and the true desires of heterosexual men. I'll take the sorceress anyday.

HipHopBeats

Just no. :|

[QUOTE="capaho"]By the why, why are there no women of color depicted in any of the game images posted in this thread?  In fact, there don't seem to be any people of color at all in any of the images posted in this thread.

Pffrbt

People usually only post pictures of people they find attractive.

Does that mean that the average gamer as typified by this thread finds women of color to be unattractive?  Is that why game developers don't bother to objectify women of color in their character designs?

[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]

[QUOTE="capaho"]By the why, why are there no women of color depicted in any of the game images posted in this thread?  In fact, there don't seem to be any people of color at all in any of the images posted in this thread.

capaho

People usually only post pictures of people they find attractive.

Does that mean that the average gamer as typified by this thread finds women of color to be unattractive?  Is that why game developers don't bother to objectify women of color in their character designs?

I guess.

Is that why game developers don't bother to objectify women of color in their character designs?capaho

[QUOTE="capaho"]Is that why game developers don't bother to objectify women of color in their character designs?SupremeAC

You can unlock some pretty racy outfits for Sheva in RE5.

[QUOTE="capaho"]Is that why game developers don't bother to objectify women of color in their character designs?SupremeAC

That's the question, isn't it? I've come to realize that most of the over-sexualized, objectified women appear to be Caucasian (or Japanese if it's a Japanese game). If nothing else, this thread just reinforces the worst stereotypes of the typical gamer as being an immature white male with an adolescent hot chick fantasy. It makes the gaming world look rather despicable.capaho

To be fair, deep down most men probably are immature white males with an adolescent hot chick fantasy. It's just that in videogames, it's so damn easy to create a character from scratch that will cater to those fantasies. I mean really, look at comic books. The amount of nudity and buxom lasses in those is at least on par with videogames. Now I'm not talking about super hero comics and what not, I don't read those and thus can't speak for them, but we rented a lot of comics not geared towards children in the library for a couple of years, and boy, the things you could see there...

SupremeAC

I really wouldn't point towards the Japanese as to be blamed for this. Well, not only the Japanese anyhow. I wasn't talking manga, I was talking (European) comics when I mentionned the huge amounts of bare flesh and feisty lasses. Sure, the Japanese might be the most sexually disturbing to us, but to say they are the only ones with a tradition of graphic sexuality is, in my opinion, just not a correct statement.SupremeAC

That's disappointing to hear.  I had thought that Europeans, in general, were far more enlightened when it came to such issues than the Japanese.

[QUOTE="SupremeAC"]I really wouldn't point towards the Japanese as to be blamed for this. Well, not only the Japanese anyhow. I wasn't talking manga, I was talking (European) comics when I mentionned the huge amounts of bare flesh and feisty lasses. Sure, the Japanese might be the most sexually disturbing to us, but to say they are the only ones with a tradition of graphic sexuality is, in my opinion, just not a correct statement.capaho

That's disappointing to hear.  I had thought that Europeans, in general, were far more enlightened when it came to such issues than the Japanese.

If nothing else, this thread just reinforces the worst stereotypes of the typical gamer as being an immature white male with an adolescent hot chick fantasy. It makes the gaming world look rather despicable.capaho

[QUOTE="capaho"] If nothing else, this thread just reinforces the worst stereotypes of the typical gamer as being an immature white male with an adolescent hot chick fantasy. It makes the gaming world look rather despicable.juradai

You don't see these images as objectifying women?

[QUOTE="juradai"][QUOTE="capaho"] If nothing else, this thread just reinforces the worst stereotypes of the typical gamer as being an immature white male with an adolescent hot chick fantasy. It makes the gaming world look rather despicable.capaho

You don't see these images as objectifying women?

[QUOTE="juradai"][QUOTE="capaho"] If nothing else, this thread just reinforces the worst stereotypes of the typical gamer as being an immature white male with an adolescent hot chick fantasy. It makes the gaming world look rather despicable.capaho

You don't see these images as objectifying women?

When one female employee at Meteor Entertainment got tired of seeing a scantily clad female Mechanic day in and day out, what did she do? Whine about the objectification of Women? No! She took matters into her own hands, made her own poster and they now hang side by side in the Developers office! Now there's a cool "damsel" that doesn't need a "White Knight" to defend her!

When one female employee at Meteor Entertainment got tired of seeing a scantily clad female Mechanic day in and day out, what did she do? Whine about the objectification of Women? No! She took matters into her own hands, made her own poster and they now hang side by side in the Developers office! Now there's a cool "damsel" that doesn't need a "White Knight" to defend her!

Phantom_Leo

You describe complaints regarding the objectification of women as "faux" or "whining," completely dismissing them as invalid.  Your last comment pretty much epitomizes sexism.  You are totally clueless.

Read This.

[QUOTE="Phantom_Leo"]

When one female employee at Meteor Entertainment got tired of seeing a scantily clad female Mechanic day in and day out, what did she do? Whine about the objectification of Women? No! She took matters into her own hands, made her own poster and they now hang side by side in the Developers office! Now there's a cool "damsel" that doesn't need a "White Knight" to defend her!

capaho

You describe complaints regarding the objectification of women as "faux" or "whining," completely dismissing them as invalid.  Your last comment pretty much epitomizes sexism.  You are totally clueless.

Read This.

The problem with that article is that it fails to grasp real sexism and tackle harder issues. Instead, it attacks the entire media in this one, swooping motion and literally tells women how they should feel.

For example, the line "Women grow up in a world... Where half-naked female bodies are displayed on walls, in public like objects, exposed female bodies used as markers of male territory, male turf... Immediate signals of discomfort, and of menace, for women." isn't necessarily true. 

For one, a lot of public magazines displaying sexy women are made by women. Cosmo comes to mind. Furthermore, not all men use pictures of naked women as a sign of territory. I'm sure some do. However the men that have those pictures for no other reason are normally morons that shouldn't represent our gender. I have a poster of Scarlett Johansson, mostly because I'm a big fan of her work. I respect her as an actress and I find her an inspiring role model, so my poster of her doesn't mean I think less of her as a human. 

Now, don't get me wrong, I feel that sexism is an issue and there needs to be a push towards getting complete, equal rights, but articles like that don't help imo. Instead, they just present this blanket idea with this generalization when we should be focusing on specifics and rooting out cause for concern... like the CEO for Abercrombie and Fitch who said some wildly stupid things lately. Or how women make less than men on average in the same jobs. 

My viewpoints may have something to do with my personal experience with women of my generation. My Facebook feed is constantly filled with my female friends posting pictures of either Robert Pattinson, any of the Doctors from Doctor Who, shirtless firemen, Channing Tatum, etc etc (usually with the phrases "mmm" or "guess I'll set my house on fire now" as tags), may of them with husbands and boyfriends. In fact I've actually discussed with them that I couldn't post equally racy photos of a woman via my wall (not that I want to, for the record) without being called a rampant sexism and we have identified it is a double standard of sorts these days. None of them would be keen on their husbands posting pictures of bikini clad girls, but they almost all post stuff that objectifies men in the same regard. 

You gotta love this thread. Here's a guy all pissed off over alleged offensive stereotyping, doing a whole bunch of offensive stereotyping. 

I think the lack of consistent standards may be the most offensive thing in this thread. 

When one female employee at Meteor Entertainment got tired of seeing a scantily clad female Mechanic day in and day out, what did she do? Whine about the objectification of Women? No! She took matters into her own hands, made her own poster and they now hang side by side in the Developers office! Now there's a cool "damsel" that doesn't need a "White Knight" to defend her!

Phantom_Leo

I don't find either one offensive. Oh shlt, they're white... can't say that! 

[REDACTED]

God how fvcking insensitive! Where's all the color at? Jesus Christ, this only appeals to drooling white fvckwits! HOW INSENSITIVE AND OFFENSIVE U ARE LEO. OMG you think lack of diversity is a joke but let ME TELL U IT ISNT.

You gotta love this thread. Here's a guy all pissed off over alleged offensive stereotyping, doing a whole bunch of offensive stereotyping. 

Shame-usBlackley

To be honest, I was thinking the same thing. Capaho doesn't seem to think highly of the Japanese and their culture. And this is hardly the first thread he's spoke of them this way. :|

You gotta love this thread. Here's a guy all pissed off over alleged offensive stereotyping, doing a whole bunch of offensive stereotyping. 

I think the lack of consistent standards may be the most offensive thing in this thread. 

Shame-usBlackley

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

You gotta love this thread. Here's a guy all pissed off over alleged offensive stereotyping, doing a whole bunch of offensive stereotyping. 

I think the lack of consistent standards may be the most offensive thing in this thread. 

RandoIphF

That ain't nice,

You gotta love this thread. Here's a guy all pissed off over alleged offensive stereotyping, doing a whole bunch of offensive stereotyping. 

I think the lack of consistent standards may be the most offensive thing in this thread. 

Shame-usBlackley

Consistency be damned!

Wait no, that's Capcom's motto. Wrong thread :P

Maybe I've had this wrong the whole time?!

• If a game contains images that shows even a single female in a sexy or provocative way, it objectifies women.
• The Sorceress from Dragon's Crown is shown in sexy or provocative way.
• Even though she is in the game with the Elf Archer and a whole bunch of men, she alone makes Dragon's Crown objectify women.
• Objectifying women is bad.
• Therefore, Dragon's Crown is bad.

I dunno. I feel kinda foolish right now. Maybe I'll go play a different game for a while and think about all that I've done.

But what will I play...?